Patriots punishment handed down

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

This is a clip from NFL.com: New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.

The commissioner also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't. If the Patriots lose their first-rounder next season they still will have a first-round pick, obtained from San Francisco in the deal that brought Moss from Oakland.

I personally think they should have forfieted the first game along with the other stuff. What are your opinions?

[waltersw15]

I think they will an indirect punishment of all the respect lost by fans who gave them credit for becoming a dynasty with just "run-of-the-mill" players. I think now they will have to overcome the stigma of being cheaters all of the time now.

However, it does suprise me that other players or coaches who have left the Patriot system have not spoken up about this issue as a revenge factor.

If the Patriots still have a first round pick coming their way regardless, then I think the punishment from the league was not enough. But again, I think people will now look at the team's dynasty being built off of cheating as opposed to good coaches utilizing lesser talent to the best of their abilities.

[LA_MERC_WBHighwind]

We dont know how extensive all of this is though. I seem to remember something else like this happening a couple of years ago so it may have been going on for a while. Either way, this tells a lot about his character and how he gets ahead. I have no sympathy for cheaters. I can understand in some cases how you can stretch the rules because thats just what you do. But this was done in complete disobedience to a clearly stated rule of no spying. However, you know what they say, if you aint cheating, you aint tryin hard enough.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

Lets put this in perspective.

Belicheater = $500,000 fine but millions in the bank.

McLaren F1 = $100,000,000 fine for spying, but millions in the bank.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=3598167

For your enjoyment only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkfvQvc9ipI

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

I think it's BS. From what I read, the infraction is due to a New England media staff person using a camera to capture the NY Jets defensive signals during a game. whoop tee doo

the game is in front of 10's - 100 thousand people anyway.
it's on TV with roughly 20 cameras pointed everywhere for millions of people to watch.
Fans in the seats right behind the Jets defensive bench probably had a better view with their camera
Paparazi are allowed to get in the face of anyone they want, anywhere they want. what if the paparazi had a sideline pass and were taking pictures of the Jets defensive coordinator for a big story??? is that so different?
NFL is a business. The owners / coaches / players / all support staff are there to make money. In the corporate world, companies gather as much publicly availible intel as possible about their competition. The Jets were in a public place in front of millions of eyes and thousands of cameras (fans in the stands and other photographers on the field). To me, that's fair game.

If the Patriots broke into the practice facility and installed cameras, hacked the Jets database, stole private documents, kidnapped or paid off a 2nd string defensive player, etc. then yeah they should be punished.

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

They deserve this and maybe worse. I mean, come on. If you don't have enough information with all the TV and tape provided by the TV stations already, you have a problem. And it does make a difference in a play and maybe a game. All it takes is to know exactly what defense play they are going to run to change a game. If you know whether a linebacker is going to blitz or play zone coverage, you know where to send you're TE or receiver. This is one of the reasons that they installled headsets in the QB's helmets so that signals are not intercepted. It's one thing to watch and figure out someone's signals than to tape and slow down the signals to figure out exactly what they are calling.

[Lockout]

Screw em!

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

This is one of the reasons that they installled headsets in the QB's helmets so that signals are not intercepted.


So why is it so hard to put a headset in a defensive players helmet for the same reason? Obviously it couldn't be a lineman or linebacker, but a DB could have one.

it's the same thing as watching the other teams signals to base runners / pitchers in baseball. New England just did it electronically, LOL.

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

You can't really put headsets in defensive players helmets. They have so many defensive packages. The quarterback is always in the game.. as far as defense they are always swapping out and combining people.

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

ohh, so they can only afford 1 headset for the defense? LOL

[LA_MERC_Nutria]

I didnt say that. Only one headset on the field per side at a time. That is the problem.. finding or remembering which helmet to grab during a no huddle situation could cost you 5-10 yards maybe even a first down and the game.

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

just messing with you nuch. but they could have multiple people with headsets. they don't have to be 2-way. Defense just has to listen. Hell, if I owned the team or was a head coach, I would put headsets in all helmets and have a spotter in the press box calling out to the defense. it would help them break to the ball much quicker. On Offense, it would help the line hear the count, or prepare for a blitz, or be easier to call an audible. The QB would be the only one I would let talk. he could even tell the receivers when to break and what direction.

I wonder how it will change the dynamic of the game, because eventually it will happen. I wonder if it will make the game more precise, with less less huge mistakes on both sides of the ball, or if it will be a bad thing that will take a lot of the chance / luck out of the game.

[LA_MERC_Spark]

Rules are rules... period.. get caught and face the music...

[LA_MERC_Drax]

So you're saying if they found a way to tap the frequency of the signal going to the quarterback's helmet and listen in to the play calling, that it would be ok?

The point is that you shouldn't study the opposite team's signals to determine what play they are going to run or defense they're puttin in, especially going about it the way the pats did.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

The fact is this. The Pats did what they did. Now every player, defensive, offensive, 2nd string, or superstar is tainted. Would Brady have been as great as he is if he didn't cheat all these years? Were the Pats the dynasty they seemed to be? Where in the hell do we put the asteriks?

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

The have talked about installing headsets in only one defensive player's helmet to cut down on stuff like this. The headset would act like the QB's headset does....it's only works for 15 secs and then it cut's out. It works just long enough for the play to be called in and then stops working. It is not active throughout the play.

But would this stop the patriot's or are they just ahead of the nfl in allowing this?

Quote:
The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

So you're saying if they found a way to tap the frequency of the signal going to the quarterback's helmet and listen in to the play calling, that it would be ok?

The point is that you shouldn't study the opposite team's signals to determine what play they are going to run or defense they're puttin in, especially going about it the way the pats did.


completely different Drax. the wireless signals would be encrypted. Hacking them would then be breaking the rules and possibly a crime. what the patriots did was look at the defensive signals the Jets displayed openly in a VERY public place.

If I want to keep my credit card # a secret when I use it at a store, I don't use hand signals to communicate my # to the clerk. The clerk does not call the bank for authorization and say out loud in front of other customers - "Hey I have a card # here to authorize 5 - 5 - 4 - 7 - ......." granted that's a little extreme, but the Jets have valuable information they are trying to communicate to the defense that they don't want anyone else to know. they (along with almost all other teams in the league) choose to use a public means to get that info to the defense. There are other methods at their disposal. run a player in every play, change the hand signals every quarter, use wireless headsets in defensive players helmets, and many other choices.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

What they did was unethical. Beli-cheat got caught doing it. They didn't "openly" discover any info. They trained a camera used for nothing else to record one person an a side line. Hell they prolly had one of their "equipment" guys texting all conversations to the box also. They got caught doing something no one else HAS been caught doing to win. For that they will be forever labeled as those guys that cheated to win. To bad they actually had talent.

Tell L.S.U.'s defense every play the Pats are running and they would pwn on the Pats also. Does that mean that L.S.U. deserves a shot at the Super Bowl? No it means that they are prepared for every play call, every hole hit, every blitz coming, every drop back coverage, every fake play.

Now that the Pats may get caught hacking radio frequencies, if found true, I think they should fine them into the millions and strip them of EVERY draft pick. Where is the "professionalism" of the Patriots in their professional sport. They have none.

[LA_MERC_th33_r00k]

If I want to keep my credit card # a secret when I use it at a store, I don't use hand signals to communicate my # to the clerk

But if I train a camera over the terminal she uses I have free access to your number. After all you did pull it out of your wallet in a "public" place. I just happened to "glance" and see it through electronic means.

Daddy has a new pair of shoes coming!

[LA_MERC_Shadow]

CO, It looks like the pats had already taken your advice and were using extra radio's. Problem is it's illegal in the NFL. The NFL controls the number of radio signals and who can wear them. And running in a player every play takes time and also certain players are in for certain packages so the teams don't want to have to switch players every time. The chances of penalties would go thru the roof.

[LA_MERC_Captain_Obvious]

LMFAO

OK coach still sucking sour grapes from his butt kicking 4 years ago.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/notebook?page=iform074