Guitar Players

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Hey guys,

Well, I've wanted to pick up and play the guitar for a long time, and I've finally borrowed a guitar and have begun to try and figure things out on my own...for instance, (I know it's like one of the easiest songs in existance, but it was easy to start with) I started figuring out Silent Lucidity last night and once I figured out that it's really just about 6 differnet changes repeated over and over, it made it a whole lot easier.

Are there any other songs that are "easy" that I can start to learn with, or is there another way that I should be learning?

LaTech

[[uGa] Saint]

i dont really know how much about music you know scott, but some of the extreme basics you need to learn first are notes, time, and learning how to read music. Its boring but it gives you a strong foundation to start. Try to learn different chords and memorize their names. The first song i learned was Bob Marley's Redemption song and Green Day's Basket Case, both very easy songs. GL LaTech!

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Well, I have been playing music for years (since I was 10), so a lot of the basics shouldn't be much of a problem (said hopefully).

[[uGa] Saint]

well then... start off with chords and use scales as exercises, if you cant find any i can PM or post some tonight when i get home. Guitar, just like every other instrument, has the basics you need to learn, and once you know those, your skills improve much faster. Getting together with someone who knows how to play to show you basic skills is very important... see if theres someone around willing to show you some starters.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Well, ask yourself what you want to accomplish. Do you want to play for pleasure or are you looking to master the instument? If youre playing for pleasure then theory and reading standard notation is cumbersome and frankly not very helpful.

One of the greatest inventions of all time relating to guitar is tabulature (or TAB). TAB uses 6 lines that represent the strings on a guitar instead of 5 lines and spaces. The six lines will have numbers that correspond the proper fret to press. As an example, here is Green Day's "When I Cone Around."

M=mute

MAIN RIFF(VERSE):
--------------------------------------|
--------------------------------------|
--------------------------8-----------|
-------------7-7---777---9995---5555--|
-5-5---555---7-7---777---9995---5555--|
-5-5---555---5-5---555---7773---3333--|
-3-3---333----------------------------|
m m m m m m

CHORUS:

--------| |--------| |--------| |--------|
--------| |--------| |--------| |--------|
---2----|X8 |---5----| X8 |---2----|X8 |---5----|X5
---2----| |---5----| |---2----| |---5----|
---0----| |---3----| |---0----| |---3----|
--------| |--------| |--------| |--------|


It's a very basic 2 riff song. Looking at the lines and numbers, the top line represents the high E string or if your holding the guitar, the bottom string. Its kind of confusing to look at I'm sure but once the light goes on, TAB ownz j00. It is the EASIEST way to learn songs.

Here is a DETAILED guide to reading TAB.....

http://www.olga.net/faq/tabbing.php

Here is the main OLGA site for getting TAB for pretty much any song you could want. Only problemis it is written by the users and can sometimes be inaccurate. I have found that most of the errors are minor and can be worked out quite easily.

http://www.olga.net

Hope that helps Scott

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Well, ask yourself what you want to accomplish. Do you want to play for pleasure or are you looking to master the instument? If youre playing for pleasure then theory and reading standard notation is cumbersome and frankly not very helpful.

One of the greatest inventions of all time relating to guitar is tabulature (or TAB). TAB uses 6 lines that represent the strings on a guitar instead of 5 lines and spaces. The six lines will have numbers that correspond the proper fret to press. As an example, here is Green Day's "When I Cone Around."

M=mute

MAIN RIFF(VERSE):
--------------------------------------|
--------------------------------------|
--------------------------8-----------|
-------------7-7---777---9995---5555--|
-5-5---555---7-7---777---9995---5555--|
-5-5---555---5-5---555---7773---3333--|
-3-3---333----------------------------|
m m m m m m

CHORUS:

--------| |--------| |--------| |--------|
--------| |--------| |--------| |--------|
---2----|X8 |---5----| X8 |---2----|X8 |---5----|X5
---2----| |---5----| |---2----| |---5----|
---0----| |---3----| |---0----| |---3----|
--------| |--------| |--------| |--------|


It's a very basic 2 riff song. Looking at the lines and numbers, the top line represents the high E string or if your holding the guitar, the bottom string. Its kind of confusing to look at I'm sure but once the light goes on, TAB ownz j00. It is the EASIEST way to learn songs.

Here is a DETAILED guide to reading TAB.....

http://www.olga.net/faq/tabbing.php

Here is the main OLGA site for getting TAB for pretty much any song you could want. Only problemis it is written by the users and can sometimes be inaccurate. I have found that most of the errors are minor and can be worked out quite easily.

http://www.olga.net

Hope that helps Scott

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Tech - I know I'll prolly get flamed for this by some but here goes.

TAB is useful for learning to play something exactly the way someone ELSE played it - to me that's hardly growing as a musician. I know lots of guys who "THINK" they are good guitarist because, hey! they can play this riff/song/lick just like some guy on a record. To *ME* that is not a hallmark of good musicianship or guitar playing. I usually do not give guitar lessons for this reason. I will drop a student as soon as they come in with a CD and play me a section and tell me that they want to play that - I also will not teach them how to read TAB until they are founded in the basics and have a good concept of playing the guitar - they must use standard notation if they are going to read. My advice is to go to your local bookstore and get a GOOD THICK chord book, and if you have musical training already you should be able to figure out your scales. Every day, go through a page or two of the chord book until you can make the chords without looking at the pictures. Also go through scales in one key each day: for example, on your first day, start with C, and play: C Major, C minor (ALL three minors, Natrual minor, Melodic minor, and Harmonic minor), C pentatonic, C diminished, C blues (both the pentatonic and sextatonic blues) while we are on blues, do your modes, C Dorian mode, C Mixolodian Mode, C Phrydgian and Half-Phrydgian modes...etc. You don't have to do all the scales, but do as many as you can figure out. Once you have your C scales down, go up to Db, then to D then to Eb, then to E then to F, you get the picture. Scales are the building blocks of everything. Another good habit to get into when playing Major scales are to play up to the ninth and then do an arpeggio of I/III/V/VII/IX up and down afterwards, it will give you a feeling of the chord structure within the scale. Also, practice your scales in thirds - for example in C, play your C major scale like this: C, E, D, F, E, G, F, A, G, B, A, C, B, D, C. Also you can do this as well... C, D, E, C, D, E, F, D, E, F, G, E, F, G, A, F, G, A, B, G, A, B, C, A, B, C, D, B, C. Again, do these in every key. They are good finger-builders. Also build up your ear. Play along with records - it may not sound good at first...also DO NOT try to play note for note what someone else on the record is playing - do your own thing as if you were a member of whatever band you are listing to and play what YOU feel, not what someone in the band felt.

Also - if at all possible get an Accoustic and learn/practice on that. I know too many guys that have only played Electric and don't have the finger strength or stamina to handle the heavier guage strings and higher action of an accoustic. Also, don't get an accoustic set up with the action of an electric, that seldom works- i keep my accoustics at about 2mm at the 12th fret and I play on .13-.60 guage strings (.14-.64 on the archtop) I generally play .11's or .12's on electric and ALWAYS with a wound 3rd string, but that is JUST my preference - everyone has a pref on that - so don't take mine, develop your own.

Again - about the TAB, it's up to you - I've used them to research a solo to see HOW someone was thinking but wouldn't ever play from one - that's all up to you - I learned differently from most since I've been playing guitar seriously since 4 and never had any real lessons until my late teens - also I play many Wind instruments (mostly Trombone, Euphonium, Trumpet, Clarinet, Sax and Tuba) as well as Piano, Bass and Drums. I've been in a lot of professional musical situations, and came very close to making my living playing music but decided against it because I didn't want to take something I love and turn it into something I hated. But I agree that especially if you are just playing for pleasure, and especially if you want to play a specific solo or riff on a recording, TAB is invaluable, I just don't want to see you make the mistake I've seen other beginner players make and rely only on TAB, and not have the ability to use your greatest tool - your EAR and figure out something on your own. I think everyone should be able to approach a set of changes and come up with a solo over those changes - that's the fun of playing music. :-)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

CFH - I can NOT believe you said that Thoery is cumbersome and not very helpful - theory IS music, and everyone that plays ANY instrument should have at least a basic fundimental concept of theory. It is not cumbersome if you have a good teacher :)

Also check out the "Master Theory" set of books they are very helpful and quite easy to get around. You'll learn everything from standard notation to transcribing and arranging melodies in 4 part harmony properly.

Without theory there would be no music, and it simply adds to the enjoyment and the pleasure. I am strongly against teaching and learning by rote - I feel that one should have a concept of music as a whole and what makes music happen.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

lol...whoa mama.....!

The FIRST thing I said was......"Do you want to play for pleasure or master the instument?"

My ENTIRE post was based on playing for pleasure. That ussually entails breaking out an acoustic at a party or around a camp fire and knocking out a few "old favorites." Mixolydian scales and pentatonic minors mean little to that type of player. Let it be known that I totally understood your post but DOG DAMN IT if it didn't make my head hurt. Tech must be nibbling on his desk (or the barrel of a gun) after reading that.

By all means, if you want to attempt to master the guitar learn EVERYTHING you can. To be a GOOD song writter you MUST understand theory....but it is cumbersome (just look at Max's post). Most things in life worth having are. Unless youre one of those bastards with perfect pitch, theory is esential to understanding why something sounds good and helpful in playing what you hear in your head.

Now to your stings...OMG! .12s with a wound 3rd on an electric?? Knowing what I know about the music you play, you must be able to poke holes in cinder blocks with your pinky. I'll use .12s but tuned down anywhere from 1 1/2 to 2 whole steps. You must have a fixed bridge. I use a Floyd and I'd need to put leaf springs from an F150 Ford to keep the bridge from snapping off if tuned to E. I use .09s for standard E tuning. I have girly fingers...lol

As for TAB, it's true it both helped and hindered me. You progress nicely at first and it makes you feel good but you will hit a point where you get stagnant in your learning. For me though, it was right about where I needed to be for the music I was playing and writting at the time so I never really "worked" to get passed that point. Ultimately it comes down to my original question...."Do you want to play for pleasure or master the instrument?"

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Oh, and I was saying theory is cumbersome and meant standard notation isnt very helpful when youre just a noodler. Unlike the piano or other instruments, the guitar has multiple fret/string combos that sound the same note so just because you recognise the notes on paper doesnt mean you may fret it the same way everytime. Alot depends on where youre going with the progession and where youre coming from. I'd much rather look at a Csus4, E, Dm written above the TAB then standard sheet notation....but thats just me. :)

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

I just shy away from TAB because I've seen so many "TAB" players that can't play crap unless it's from TAB...

I went a little theoretical in my post becuase I know Tech is a musician - he plays (or played) Trumpet in Band so he should know most of those scales on trumpet, so he just has to figure out how to play them on guitar - that will teach him a lot about how the notes are layed out on guitar.

Yeah - on the electric w/ .12's fixed bridge LP Standard. Trying to figure out a good .13 set I can make up for electric. SRV played .13's...but he tuned the whole guitar down 1/2 step. I think I like the wound 3rd because I'm basically an accoustic player used to Med Guage accoustic strings (.13-.60). But even on electric, anything less than .11's (and even them sometimes) feel like rubber bands under my fingers :D If I play a Nylon string Classical guitar it has to be strung w/ VH Tension strings or I can't do anything w/ it.

I agree w/ what you say about having the chord progression written over the TAB..I see a lot without it-- If I am seeking out TAB to research something I want the chords, that way I can see where the orignal artist was coming from. As far as TAB vs. Standard Notation - that again I think is personal pref. I learned Standard Notation first, and when I listen to music usually I have a scrolling sheet of standard notation running through my head (BTW, I'm one of those bastards with *near* perfect pitch - I used to tune pianos w/ no external pitch source.) I can also usually define what pitch flourecent lights are humming, or a vaccum cleaner...it's really annoying...lol. especially if there is a vaccum running at Db and a florecent light at D in the same room - quite dissonent. Makes my teeth itch. I can NEVER watch stuff like star search or American Idol - those noobs have no concept of pitch or singing in tune, and they are generally a few cents sharp or flat and it will give me a headache listening too them.

BTW - never tried the cinderblock thing, but I can crack a walnut or pecan w/ my thumb and just about any finger on my left hand - and I HAVE to have an ebony or maple fingerboard because i will put little dents in a rosewood fingerboard. I have dented the neck on the back of cheaper guitars w/ my left hand thumb...hehehe.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Also - on Brass instruments there are MANY different ways to play the same note...it's called alternate fingerings - many woodwinds have a few alternate fingerings as well....just so you'll know :) Often times in trombone music there will be little numbers above or below the notes suggesting what position to play the note in but most good trombonist can tell what position to play it in because of the notes around it - the goal is always to keep the slide moving in the same direction either in or out for a succession of notes rather than sawing in and out alot...

Just a small side note ;)

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

I can't say that I have perfect pitch, but I can hear something and know whether or not it's in tune. One of the joys of playing french horn was the ability to tune on the fly simply by moving your hand. Duets were always challenging because my duet partner was tone deaf and would just play...I had to make it sound good by being as out of tune as she was.

I'll be honest, I never was very good at the improv stuff (even when I was in Jazz band). Let me listen to a piece, and give me a day and I'll have it figured out. I can read music, but it's just easier for me to listen and play. Not good for someone who wants to pick up a new instrument, I know. I will be playing for fun...just as a test to see if I can still make music of any kind. I miss music and figure this will be a fun way to get back into it.

LaTech

PS: Thanks for all the input so far...from everyone.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Actually - if you are good at listening to something, and then figuring it out and playing it, you will go a long way. That's a good head start, and it means you have a very good ear. I'd say you have what's called Relative pitch. You can do the same things someone with perfect pitch can do, it just takes you longer :D

Improv can be easy if you are an ear player, just try to improv in a style of music you have in your bones. If you don't have Jazz in your bones as I do, you'll never be able to play a decent jazz solo - but perhaps you'd improv a killer metal solo or something...do you get where I'm coming from? For example, both M@l and I play trombone...I'm the jazz guy, he's the classical guy - he can play great cadenza's and I can play great Jazz solo's - both are improv, just in differnet styles.

I still think, at this point in the game, a good thick chord book with actual pictures of the players hands - rather than just the TAB like drawings (we have one like that at our local Books A Million) would do you a world of good. The pictures make it easier that way you can see what fingers go on what strings and what frets to make the chords easier. The book with the pics still has the TAB like drawings, but has the pic for reference as well.

Best of luck my friend, playing the guitar is a very rewarding experiance...and has come in handy since I've gone back to dial-up - I play more than I have in quite sometime - waiting on pages to load :)

Later.
j.

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

hehe...We do aree on the chord book. I'd liked to have had one when I was starting. When I was learning 99% of the stuff I wanted to play were either 2 string power chords (5ths) or 3 and 4 string barre chords. When thats all you play you progress very slowly. Diversify from the start and you'll be happier in the long run.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

Yeah - because sometimes those funky chords look REALLY funky TABed out, but when you see the pic you're like - "Oh YEAH!"

[LA_MERC_eX1|eS' ch1|d]

Well, I thought I might be able to shed a little light on the guitar but I bow to the greater knowledge of Scott and Jayson.

I agree with most of the stuff said so far, definately Jayson's post of how to set up your fingers, starting out the tab looks really crazy.

When you play a G use your middle, ring, and pinky because it flows right into C and F among other things. I was stupid and didn't listen to my music teacher in high school and used the easier fingering of index, middle, and ring. Some songs require very fast switches which are more difficult using the short term easier technique.(weak pinky strength when I started)

Oh yeah, make sure to keep some fingernail clippers handy because you gonna be cutting them on an almost daily basis.

When the string slides under your fingernail it hurts.

That's all I have to say about that.

[LA_MERC_MadMAX]

I actually use both fingerings for "G" eX - depending on what chords are around the "G" and also depends on if I'm playing a melody along w/ the G chord a 'la chet atkins...If I'm going to C or F from G I'll use middle, ring, and pinky but if I'm going to A or D from G I'll use index, middle, and ring. Watch vids of guitarist and you'll see they use both as well...just depends on where you are coming from and where you are going around that G. Both are officially correct but you'll usually see index, middle, and ring in pictoral chord books as the middle, ring, and pinky is considered bad technique in official classical guitar circles.

You may also find that you'll cut your left hand nails almost daily but let your right hand nails grow a bit for fingerstyle stuff - makes you look weird, but fellow guitar players will spot you a mile off :)

[LA_MERC_JESTER]

geeeeez that is sooooo mucch techincal stuff for a nub like scott...... You tell me when I will be there Scott. I have given guitar lessons for 8 yrs and can get you started on the basics. And from there you can learn the rest pretty much on accident. Give me a call and we will hook up one night maybe do a movie (you buy) and I will give the lesson...318-560-0821

[[uGa] Saint]

hahaha, i bet jester doesnt even know how to play guitar, he just wants a free movie.... lol :P just kidding booooy!!

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

No no...Jester and I have talked guitar before (at about 3am while on the way to get some food, if I recall correctly, lmao). Dude...consider it done. Now I just gotta find some time!

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

I wouldnt be posting my private phone number in a PUBLIC forum... you b00n.

[LA_MERC_eX1|eS' ch1|d]

Let the games begin!

Jayson, most of the songs I played I should have used middle, ring, pinky, just b/c that would have been easier. But I did have some crazy speed switching my chords b/c of that, LOL. When I got a Led Zepplin tab book, like every single Zepplin song in it, I ran into...shoot can't think of the song name. But a song where I had to switch from G to C to D crazy fast, I got it most of the time but that was a quick switch! Took me a long time to get it b/c of the switch speed.

[[uGa] Saint]

lmao at EC

[eNdOfBeGinNinG]

i suggest any metallica song should be a good start for you tech lol ;p

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Metallica is a lot of chords...shouldn't be THAT hard (/me laughs at self)

[LA_MERC_Cowboy_From_Hell]

Actually the Black album would be a good place to start. Enter Sandman is easy...so is Sad But True. Nothing Else Matters is a bigger joke the Silent Lucidity....so, yeah, Metalica is a good place to start. Other good cheese stuff is Poison, Green Day and any semi-current pop/punk.

If you just want to learn songs, use the OLGA site...its free and has lots of stuff. I learned an entire set list in just under 2 weeks because of the TAB I got off OLGA.

[Dresden]

Pink Floyd "Wish you were here" is a pretty easy one

[LA_MERC_LaTech]

Eruption by Van Halen seems pretty easy, too...

I kid I kid